Curse

Servant of Kali · Jun 19, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Yes, it is easier for Luxons. However, in a chaotic random setup, even 1 bonder can drastically increase the chances of winning on Kurzick side. Of course, it's a gamble. If there's Profane, you're dead, unless your team is organized enough to kill the necro (happens sometimes but rarely).

Luxons indeed don't need to do much to win. I play both sides so it's easier for me to evaluate. Most of the times when im Luxon, we win in 5min. You get same faction as kurzicks who last 20min.

If the teams weren't random, it's actually hard to tell who would win more frequently. Kurzicks could keep respawning after they die and just spamming back enchants on Gunther, Weapon of Warding, and Wards under it. On the other hand, you could simply just spike the guy with something i guess.

ps: yeah, i think weekend even would be cool. Overall, randomness of FA is good, i dont think it should be organized. However, a weekend here n there for organized teams would be interesting.

Riotgear · Jun 19, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

If the teams weren't random, it's actually hard to tell who would win more frequently.

Kurzicks would. Each side: 1 prot, 1 infuser. 1 Me/N with PD for interrupting the turtle and a fast corpse remover. 1 Rt/R for weapon spells, 0-rank NR+Tranq + Spirit-destroying skill so that if enemies decide to use that, rit just drops a copy, destroying the original and destroys their copy.

You can't exactly win GvG or HA by just parking on one person and mashing buttons until they're dead. Prot will own you. Yet that's exactly what Luxons need to do to get through the gates, and they need to do it a minimum of THREE times, the first two of which they can barely even move within earshot range of the monks because of the closed gate.

The only thing Luxons can really do against something like that is stack N/R's and pile dead pets on the NPC and use Profane, and even after that you've gotta fight two infusers.

tsparky · Jun 19, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

organised teams of 4 would get down on the amount of leechers tbh.

I know for a fact many would not let a leecher join thier party of 4.
but on the flip side you may get a party of 4 leechers

Leeching is bad nuff said , Lets only hope ANET will try and do somthing about it.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 19, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

The "Shrine Capture" ABs have a lot more potential strategic depth than Fort Aspenwood, because they're based around movement and splits. Take away the random teams, and Aspenwood becomes a lot like the old HoH, with builds and strategies all built around exploiting/defending retarded NPCs. Unlike the shrine capture in HoH, the maps/builds actually cater to the gametype. Once you get flexible characters and a coordinated team into the mix, the huge shrine capture maps have more strategic depth than GvG.

Of course, Arenanet's shrine capture gametypes have been a series of monumental failures for various reasons (random teams, one short gametype in HoH, or replacing players with AI.) It's no suprise that they haven't shown interest in expanding the gametype.

Zuranthium · Jun 20, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

ABs would be massively epic and exciting if they were 8v8.

~Z

Patccmoi · Jun 20, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

ABs would be massively epic and exciting if they were 8v8.

~Z

ABs are far too big maps to be fun with 8v8. It'd be fun if it was organized 12v12...

TheOneMephisto · Jun 20, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Kurzicks would. Each side: 1 prot, 1 infuser. 1 Me/N with PD for interrupting the turtle and a fast corpse remover. 1 Rt/R for weapon spells, 0-rank NR+Tranq + Spirit-destroying skill so that if enemies decide to use that, rit just drops a copy, destroying the original and destroys their copy.

You can't exactly win GvG or HA by just parking on one person and mashing buttons until they're dead. Prot will own you. Yet that's exactly what Luxons need to do to get through the gates, and they need to do it a minimum of THREE times, the first two of which they can barely even move within earshot range of the monks because of the closed gate.

The only thing Luxons can really do against something like that is stack N/R's and pile dead pets on the NPC and use Profane, and even after that you've gotta fight two infusers.

IMO, more like:

1 Me/N with corpse control and PD.
2 Mo/X chaining spellbreaker. Also chain SoA probably, with one being all prot and the other being heal/div with some in prot for SoA.
1 Rt/R with 0-rank NR and tranq, spirit killer, fertile, symbiosis, weapon of warding, then maybe spirit light and some random elite?

You'd be hard-pressed to get past one of these 4-man teams at a game just bonding/protting up an ele. Perma-spellbreaker makes enchant removals pretty tough. I'd imagine teams resorting to stuff like OoA or mass lvl 1 pets + profane.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 20, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Dont forget Chillblains on a necro, or assault enchantments on a sin. Once you get the enchants off use shadow shroud to stop more prots. Without prots I doubt they could heal any npc fast enough to stop all the damage.

Riotgear · Jun 20, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Take away the random teams, and Aspenwood becomes a lot like the old HoH, with builds and strategies all built around exploiting/defending retarded NPCs.

This kind of sums it up.

Quote:

I'd imagine teams resorting to stuff like OoA or mass lvl 1 pets + profane.

That's probably what would happen, as soon as you can get Profane to land, killing an NPC that refuses to move out becomes that much easier.

Relying an enchantments is probably a bad idea for that reason, you'd probably want an Angelic Bond para, a big pile of rits + paragons, and just turtle up at the third gate, but then it's hard to mitigate the siege cannon shelling. It's kind of hard to tell, in retrospect, because the whole concept of the map is a really stupid one.

Seef II · Jun 20, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

It's definitely built for random, sucky teams. I've entertained the thought of "GvG Fort Aspenwood" but it'd be pretty silly - whoever has the better PvE pulling skillz to lure Gunther out of green or stick the goons wins.

Servant of Kali · Jun 20, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

because the whole concept of the map is a really stupid one.

Why? The map is awesome, it's built for random teams and works great for random teams, with the exclusion of leechers.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 20, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

What if....they made teams of 2 before you go in. It would be sorta like how AB is with the teams of 4. It would cut down on leechers but still be random enough that you dont have massive exploits.

Thoughts?

Servant of Kali · Jun 20, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

No, i think it should be kept random. I think the solution to leechers is actually ANet saying they ARE a problem.

Im sorry but when Gaile says "we dont see leechers as a problem", there is a problem.

ps: In case you don't get it, leeching helps those guilds holding towns. To me, that's totally boring, but to them, it's worth killing everyone elses fun. Teams of 4? I just ran into 2 guildies leeching. Do you think 4 guildies leeching would solve the problem?

Kool Pajamas · Jun 21, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I said teams of 2 not 4. Sure you could get guildies/friends leeching, but it would cut down on the bot leeching which is much more frequent. If there is someone you know that is a leecher dont group with them and they wont have a way in.

ryanryanryan0310 · Jun 22, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Two bonders on the kurick side is always fun. 4-8 hammer warrior spike is not fun.
But I sometimes play luxon and bond the turtle. It's gets real fun when the turtle gliches.
Ft.Aspendwood is the one of the best PvP maps.

Leechers suck!!!!!

Traveller · Jun 22, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

There's always so many angry people in Ft Aspenwood, who bring out the jerk in me too. Usually they complain about someone else copying builds off Wiki, someone else killing them (and demanding 1vs1 n00b) or generally just acting like jackasses. Top that off with the usual leechers and quitters and you have a recipe for frustration.

And yet I play almost every time I'm online. I can only imagine how fun it would be with constant 8vs8 with teams with good sportsmanship and some kind of team effort.

person a · Jun 23, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

i stopped playing ft aspenwood along time ago due to the low quality of players there. random is fine, but when you have random with 3 leechers and 2 tanks that won't do anything and then maybe a decent player it just is not fun. imo it would be alot better if it was not placed so early in the pve campagine, and then given a collect 10,000 faction quest right as it is unlocked. this forces pve noobs to get into a pvp game completly unprepared with skills like mending on their bars.
i have no problems with the map or the glitchy AI, it's fun to have a good laugh at the seige turtles struggling to get through the walls. it's the people, essppically the leachers, that made it boring for me.
and i would love to see one non-random weekend. it would be completly imba but it would be lots of fun.

Jetdoc · Jun 23, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clamatius

I've had much better results on the Kurzick side from bringing an offensive runner build and just keeping the shrines clean and running amber.

This is the build that I was running tonight on the Kurzick side, and I have to say that it was much more fun than bonding.

It was funny - I was actually criticized by another warrior on the Kurzick side for not "standing and fighting". I think the public response was..."why did you bring a runner build? This ain't Droks, n00b." Good times.

BeowulfKamdas · Jun 23, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

this gameplay type is flawed and only works because of the randomness of the players. Some matches are dictated by just what builds your party members are using and what your opponents are using.

Its kinda sad because its a bit of a testament on how restrictive and limited the Guild Wars engine is. Anyone ever suggest different skill balances for different arenas? EG a certain skill balance for team arena, GvG , and HoH? or would that be too complicated. or maybe we need to rebuild and make guild wars 2.

Riotgear · Jun 23, 2007, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Recent update:

Quote:

* Kurzick players will receive a faction point reward of two times the final completion percentage of the Vengeance of the
* Luxon players will receive 40 faction points for each unique gate destroyed during the mission.
* Players on the winning team will be awarded a further bonus of 600 faction points.

I don't think ANet really gets it. The issue has never been how good the rewards are when you lose, the problem is that there is a reward at all for BEING AFK. Most of the leechers out there are on 24/7, indicating that they're probably bots. It doesn't matter if it's slower, it's always been slower to leech faction than to help a team win, as long as people can go to sleep and wake up with more faction, they're going to leech.

This may actually make the leeching problem worse, because there is now even less incentive for players to stick around on a team handicapped by leechers: You're just going to get jacked on faction, so why bother?